Linen match for 8/2 cotton.

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M Otridge

almost 2 years ago

Apologies if this seems a silly question but as a new weaver I'm struggling a little with the complexity of differing yarn weights/gauges/ply and a Google search hasn't proven fruitful!

I'm just after a gauge match in linen for 8/2 cotton. I'm UK based and not all outlets offer the same info (namely WPI) to help me get a good idea of what I'm buying. Any tips would be most welcome!

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Cheryl Schwarz

almost 2 years ago

It might be useful to put a short warp (12 inches wide) on your loom and play with different epi and ppi. Start sleyiing at 18 or 20, weave a foot, resley at 22, weave a foot, resley at 24 etc.

M Otridge

almost 2 years ago

Thanks Cheryl, I'm grateful for the suggestion but it's not what to do with the yarn -but knowing which one to purchase that I'm struggling with. There are no local suppliers and with so much variation in online descriptions, without a WPI I'm left unsure which will meet my needs.

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Cheryl Schwarz

almost 2 years ago

For some reason, I thought you had the yarns in your stash. Is it possible for you to call/email the yarn store and ask which yarns will most closely match your needs?

Also, many of the US sites have recommended setts listed for their yarns. I know the Woolery does. Maybe that can help for a reference?

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M Otridge

almost 2 years ago

Good thinking, I'll check out the Woolery and see if I can cross reference the details. Maybe a little more googling about "linen count" too as I haven't yet built up a clear understanding of how it differs.

Oh to have a local yarn store! That would be wonderful!

Sandra Mod

almost 2 years ago

We do have a list of suppliers in the UK and EU that carry yarns that have been used by overseas members. If you email the office at [email protected] - they will be able to send you that list. Hopefully you can contact one or all of the yarn shops to see if they carry a linen that might work for you. Sorry, I haven’t been much help - I was working on the assumption that you had linen in your stash 😏

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Sandra Mod

almost 2 years ago

Have you had a chance to watch the episodes on sett and yarn in Season 1? Season 1 is useful to go back to and review over and over again. It helps you understand the “tools” of the full weaving process.

M Otridge

almost 2 years ago

I have thanks -though perhaps I'll circle back as there is a lot to soak in. I understand the basics of sett etc the challenge I'm having is navigating the differing substrates with their own measurement systems and terminology (metric vs english cotton vs linen).

I'm wanting a linen yarn to match the gauge/wpi of 8/2 cotton so that it will work with the existing yarn I own (rather than the yarn be the starting point if that makes sense?).

Sandra Mod

almost 2 years ago

Hi Mathew, I don’t have an easy answer for you :-( The linens we are familiar with are the ones that Jane uses and they are a different size than 8/2 cotton - one a lot finer and one a tad bigger. That’s why I suggested rewatching Season 1 Episode 4 where Jane demonstrates how she does the ruler wrap and comes up a sett using the yarn she has on hand. Episode 4 also has a blank Master Sett Chart that you can use for making notes on the setts you want to try, after doing the wrap. Also, make a note on your chart about the final hand of the cloth you’ve woven after it’s been finished. Also, here is a link to an article in our Knowledge Base where Jane explains the numbering system in different yarns depending on their fibre count. You might find it interesting. Hope some of this helps. https://janestaffordtextiles.com/knowledge-base/what-do-the-numbers-in-yarn-sizes-mean/

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nato

almost 2 years ago

Just a thought, have you looked at a master yarn sett chart like the one handwoven magazine has for free? You could compare the setts for linen to the 8/2. Maybe 16/2, 20/2, 14/2? (Have no clue what they look like).

I have little experience with linen since I’ve been using cotton for samples due to cost but worth looking at the chart? I’ve been eyeballing the chart myself as I summon the courage to try drafts from Vav which often use yarns. Unfamiliar to me.
Vav might even have something on yarn.

You could also ask in a Ravelry forum like warped weavers or email Glimakra ? The one in the US is probably bilingual in Yarn Speak/numbers.

Good luck!!

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M Otridge

almost 2 years ago

It hasn't occurred to me to check out revelry for weaving! I'll do that, thanks!

Catherine S

almost 2 years ago

Oh yes, I have been there too. So overwhelming all these numbers.

What I found out: 1NeL = 0.604Nm
8/2 Cotton is approx. 6700m/kg
Cottolin is approx 6000m/kg and corresponds to Nm12/2., you can combine them perfectly as we know.
Linen NeL 16/2 = Nm 10/2 = approx. 5000m/kg.

My supplier in Switzerland recommends 8-14 epcm for the 16/2 Linen, for the 8/2 cotton and cottolin 8-12epcm so that should be fine.

In UK I could find 16/2 linen here https://weavingyarn.co.uk/product/garnhuset-linen-16-2-candy-46/
What I am struggling with is their sett recommandation as 16 -20EPI for sure isn't the same as 11-18epcm....

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M Otridge

almost 2 years ago

Thanks Catherine! I thought I'd stumbled upon the answer here:

https://www.textileadvisor.com/2020/10/lea-count-linen-count-and-relation-of.html#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20hanks%20of%20300%20yards%20in,finer%20when%20the%20count%20increases%20in%20this%20system.

I'm a nutshell it says LEA (linen count) is NE (english cotton count) x2.8

BUT... having just read your comment it occurred to me that this is still likely weight based comparison rather than thickness. So you're right, a sett chart may be the way to go after all.

A lot seems to be advertised in NM (metric count) here so the article will still be useful for conversion.

M Otridge

almost 2 years ago

Ok I think I've cracked it. Thanks to Catherine for directing me to a UK store listing with lea nm and sett!

Their cottolin match for 8/2 is listed at 22/2 lea with a sett of 20-28 epi.

I checked out the calculations from the article shared about and it works. So ne x2.8 to get the lea and then lea x0.6 for metric.

I feel a bit more confident ordering a few to test now. Thanks everybody!! 😊

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Sandra Mod

almost 2 years ago

Just a quick note - cottolin is a combination of 60% cotton/40% linen and does work beautifully with 8/2 cotton - I've used it a lot over the years in so many ways. However - I thought you were on a search for 100% linen or I would have suggested it at the beginning of our discussion. Happy learning and weaving!

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Catherine S

almost 2 years ago

Great!
And I learned that NeL isn't an english expression as I thought. My NeL is your Lea.

And be careful with the sett conversion of this UK shop. For Wool 20/2 sett they write EPI 30/36/40 and epcm 5/6/7 which is obviousely something completely different. Same with the 16/2 linen sett as I mentioned above.